Circumcision. This extreme punishment will not be given to any but the sons of perdition (Doctrines of Salvation 2:220). Did I really have full knowledge? Are the devils before the world created sons of perdition? However, Lucifer did not know all the purposes of the Father as we learn from the Pearl of Great Price, Moses 4:6. There are three references to outer darkness in the New Testament, all contained in the Gospel of Matthew. and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell (James 3:6). King Benjamin and Alma also use the word as to preface their reference to a lake of fire and brimstone (see Mosiah 3:27; Alma 12:17). Becoming a son of Perdition is hard therefore going to outer darkness is hard. Unfortunately, Apple's iOS doesn't support home screen shortcuts in the Chrome browser. But suppose, deep down, I do believe the church is true. Yet I never was baptized and confirmed into this church. So lets turn to that bastion of all wisdom that Jeremy Runnells was blamed for not believing and turning to with questions: FAIRMormon: The church has no official position on this issue. 8:1112). 9:16) after the final judgment. In addition, Alma defined the second death as dying as to things pertaining unto righteousness. These individuals are chained down to an everlasting destruction and are subject to the will of Satan. Tenth President Joseph Fielding Smitha general authority who spoke more about this issue than any other leaderstated. There are ten references to the lake of fire and brimstone in the Book of Mormon. and they were judged every man according to their works (Rev. You not only need to have been a Mormon, but you have to have full knowledge that this is the restored church of God and still fought against it. D&C 76 does say telestial people are the ones thrust down to hell and not redeemed until the last resurrection. This is what was taught by several important church leaders, including founder Joseph Smith. In Christianity, the "exterior darkness" or outer darkness is a place referred to three times in the Gospel of Matthew (8:12, 22:13, and 25:30) into which a person may be "cast out", and where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth". it could be a reference for the resurrected who gain inheritance on other worlds but without the fulness of Also, you can read this too. Your generous support makes the work of MRM possible. He also said,I think I am safe in saying that no man can become a Son of Perdition until he has known the light. Through baptism and confirmation by priesthood authority, you became a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (True to the Faith: A Gospel Reference, 2004, p. 21, So, even if you attended LDS Church services, sang the hymns, and even partook of the weekly sacrament, yet you were never baptized and confirmed into the faith, you can never become a son of perdition. We found these portrayals to be highly inaccurate. Thank you! Additionally it provides helpful commentary on New Testament passages concerning hell. The apostle James taught that the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity . 1. He stated that converts made by the Pharisees became twofold more the child of hell than their teachers (Matt. Another name for Outer Darkness is hell. Banishment from the glory of God. So I thought Id get it all out there in one simple post. . In harmony with this doctrinal truth that death and hell will deliver up the spirits and bodies of their captives, King David received the promise that his soul would not be left in hell (see Ps. They will not have access to the Holy Ghost or Heavenly Father or Jesus. Those who must suffer with Satan for the deeds done in mortality will go with him into outer darkness. Twelfth President Spencer W. Kimball wrote. While John could be referring to the sons of perdition in this passage, the specific sins he identified are characteristic of those who will suffer in hell but, after experiencing their part in the lake of fire, will be released from their torment and be resurrected to a telestial glory (see D&C 76:10312). Which would be a sure-fire way to know that a spirit is headed to Outer Darkness? Just one sin. Plagiarism and The Globe a comparative analysis, The Shunning Key by bwv549 - Mormon Bandwagon, https://www.lds.org/scriptures/gs/sons-of-perdition, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_perdition_(Mormonism), https://www.fairmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/What_is_Mormon_Doctrine.pdf, https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Plan_of_salvation/Sons_of_Perdition/Can_women_be_%22Sons_of_Perdition%22, LDS Church and Same Sex Marriage Timeline, The Pump LDS film and the original source, Ethan Smith, Hyrum Smith, Oliver Cowdery, Solomon Spaulding connections. The celestial, terrestrial, and telestial are kingdoms of glory. 5. Please read, the source above, What is Official LDS Doctrine. Outer Darkness Definition - Mormonism Research Ministry Those who have never received the light are not to become Sons of Perdition (Conference Reports, October 1958, p. 21). When I bring this issue up with some Latter-day Saints, I sometimes get defensive arguments. The Three Most Abominable Sins | Religious Studies Center So, in conclusion, I would have a hard time believing that you or billions of souls as you put will qualify for perdition even while taking Mormon beliefs into account. 5:30). The ex-mortal sons of perdition will be resurrected, as will everyone else; but they will finally suffer the second death, the spiritual death, for they are cut off again as to things pertaining to righteousness. (Hel. 9:16; emphasis added). Add an RSC shortcut to this device's Homescreen, In the menu, scroll past any icons and tap. Followers 0. [3]. The second death is a second separation from God, not because of Adams transgression (the first death) but because of ones own failure to repent of personal sin. For behold, he surely must die that salvation may come; yea, it behooveth him and becometh expedient that he dieth, to bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, that thereby men may be brought into the presence of the Lord. This is the choice of an individual to reject God. Thank you! The filthy would be more miserable to dwell with God than to dwell in hell, Morm. What is Outer Darkness? As explained in D&C 88:11-13: 10:28). . For example, John saw the judgment in vision and wrote that death and hell delivered up the dead . 21:8). You'll need to do a few things to get the most out of your ex-Mormon candle. Hence, the term outer darkness. (To see the differences between the three kingdoms of glory, click here.) This is serving Satan. The Outer Darkness Dilemma - Official Website of the ex-Mormon Apologist He once said that a person. Making the LDS Church Slightly Better: A Members Wish List. ABCs of Science and Mormonism now available in Print from Amazon! These are they who do two very specific things. Clean and Unclean Mormons also believe that those on Earth with bodies can become a Son of Perdition, tho this is difficult to do. The conclusion: You (former Mormon), despite being baptized into this church, are not a son of perdition! 12:22). The Book of Mormon contains one reference to outer darkness. 22:13) if it is also a place of perpetual fire (Matt. Okay so clearly we have billions of souls who qualify as perdition and go to outer darkness according to one prophet in his personal books and not officially speaking as a prophet. Dennis L. Largey, Hell Second Death, Lake of Fire and Brimstone, and Outer Darkness, inThe Book of Mormon and the Message of the Four Gospels, ed. . Also God says no one knows in scripture, so stop asking; but He also said in scripture that He upbraideth not those who have questions and if you ask it shall be opened unto you. I have no fear of hell fire, that doesnt exist, but the torment and disappointment of the mind of man is as exquisite as a lake burning with fire and brimstoneso is the torment of man. This is the second death. A Vision, Times and Seasons 4 (1 Feb 1843) 6:82-5. John did not define the second death other than to make it synonymous with the lake of fire and brimstone that awaits the wicked. 11:23). But unofficial prophets speaking at BYU or in their own books say no, except Brigham in the Journal of Discourses which is unofficial. Thus, by the definition given by the leaders cited above, these people cannot be considered sons of perdition. But to pass it off as a belief of an entire Church, organization and people is wrong. (J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Church Leaders and the Scriptures, [original title When Are the Writings or Sermons of Church Leaders Entitled to the Claim of Scripture?] Immortality and Eternal Life: Reflections from the Writings and Messages of President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., Vol, 2, (1969-70): 221; address to Seminary and Institute Teachers, BYU (7 July 1954); reproduced in Church News (31 July 1954); also reprinted in Dialogue 12/2 (Summer 1979): 6881.). 5:22), as were those who failed to cast away their sins (JSM 5:34; cf. In this context, outer darkness is the spirit prison, or that part of the spirit world that the wicked inhabit prior to their resurrection. And since we know that prophets speaking define it, this is the definition we should use. We will, however, address some of the portrayals of other LDS beliefs and practices that were depicted in this episode. Everyone but the Sons of Perdition and the devil and his devils, will overcome spiritual death through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 4:32; 3 Ne. A lot of people wanted a source on that. Nephis words can thus be applied to Jesus parable: the reason the rich man could not cross the great gulf to Abrahams bosom, or the reason the wicked could not join the Saints of God at the tree of life, is because the justice of God does not permit it. So apostates from the church are clearly included in this list. Horror Short Film "Outer Darkness" | ALTER | Online Premiere 31,262 views Mar 31, 2022 Subscribe to ALTER on YouTube: https://goo.gl/LnXRC3 .more .more 1K Dislike Share Save Description. But Mormons do not believe that just because a Prophet said it, that it makes it true. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, The. [3] Larry E. Dahl, The Concept of Hell, in Doctrines of the Book of Mormon (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1992), 4243. Can you explain what Outer Darkness is and who will spend eternity there? In my last post, I claimed that I might be a candidate for outer darkness. 20:1314). 5:22), burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire (Matt. Is Jesus the Only Redeemer? I did cite sources spoken from the pulpit by a prophet. Gregory A. Boyd, Paul R. Eddy Across the Spectrum: Understanding Issues in Evangelical Theology pp285 2009 "For example, how can hell be a place of outer darkness (Matt. As with anything in Mormon doctrine, theres a lot of confusion, contradictory information and just all around ignoring a topic that should be as simple as asking a question and getting an answer. It is taught that, in the pre-mortal life, they chose to follow a plan proposed by Satan, rather than that presented by God the Father. So the prophet, meeting with apostles is clear on this, there are women. Outer Darkness - Social Hall - Mormon Dialogue & Discussion Board. (Elder Bruce R. McConkie Mormon Doctrine Lecture, #2, Brigham Young University, 1967.). In contrast, Book of Mormon references to the second death are embedded in sermons that teach it in context with other essential elements of the plan of salvation. 2. Whether Christians have believed hell to be literal or figurative, the New Testament metaphor of an unquenchable lake of fire has conjured up for believers in the Bible harsh images of souls consigned to never-ending punishment as recompense for their evil deeds done while on earth. Those in this second group will be resurrected from the dead but will not be redeemed from the second (spiritual) death and cannot dwell in a kingdom of glory (D&C 88:32, 35). According to the Doctrine and Covenants, this will be a place that even in outer darkness, where there is weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth (Doctrine and Covenants 101:91; also see 133:73). FAIRMormon says on this page even: When any man, except the President of the Church, undertakes to proclaim one unsettled doctrine, as among two or more doctrines in dispute, as the settled doctrine of the Church, we may know that he is not moved upon by the Holy Ghost, unless he is acting under the direction and by the authority of the President. Polygamy with tons more men than women sounds ill-thought out. The word hell is mentioned twenty-three times in the New Testament: fifteen times in the Gospels, twice in the book of Acts, once each in James and 2 Peter, and four times in the book of Revelation. The Book of Mormon does not teach the doctrinal truth that hell will end for the majority of those who suffer in the spirit prison prior to being resurrected and entering the telestial kingdom; however, this truth is clearly taught in the Doctrine and Covenants (see D&C 76:3638, 106). In Peters second general epistle to the Church, he taught concerning the angels who had sinned, saying that God cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness (2 Pet. Matt. 14:34), awful hell (1 Ne. The New Testament testifies that there is an actual place identified as hell into which people can be cast, as in the case of the wicked, and from which they can lift up their eyes, as in the case of the rich man, and from which they can be delivered, as in the case of King David. They place themselves beyond the power of repentance and beyond the mercies of God. Alma 40. What is the Mormon plan of salvation? It is provided through Christ's atonement and received by personal faith in Christ as Savior and Lord. Additional doctrinal truth concerning the great gulf can be found in the Doctrine and Covenants (see D&C 138:1837). And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire [i.e., overcome or defeated by Christs Atonement]. Johns references to the second death testify of its existence but do not offer any explanatory information that instructs those readers who do not already understand the doctrine. Dennis L. Largey was an associate professor of ancient scripture at Brigham Young University when this was published. For many are called, but few are chosen." See Michael Hicks, Joseph Smith, W.W. Phelps, and the Poetic Paraphrase of The Vision, Journal of Mormon History 20 (Fall 1994) 2: 63-84 for discussion of authorship of this poem.). At the end of the twenty years, the knife would be withdrawn and again stabbed into us, with the resulting excruciating pain lasting another twenty years; this process would then be repeated for all eternity. 40 talks in 40 days for General Conference, Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. This page was last edited on 17 September 2010, at 20:26. King Benjamin defined the cause of this great torment: Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever. Because of their disobedience, these spirits ended up not receiving bodies, a necessary ingredient to progress to mortality and be qualified for one of the three kingdoms of glory. 25:30). . As used in the New Testament, hell is an English word which is translated from two Greek words: hades (used ten times) and geenna (twelve times). That it is the most severe punishment that can be meted out to man is apparent. Later in the same discourse Alma blended the doctrines of the Fall, agency, and the second death together as an admonition to keep the commandments of God (see Alma 12:3137). Brigham Young University The use of the term exterior darkness is in Jesus' parable of the wedding feast (also known as the parable of the marriage of the king's son). Jacob taught that the lake of fire is not a literal fire but a figurative representation of torment: And assuredly, as the Lord liveth, for the Lord God hath spoken it, and it is his eternal word, which cannot pass away, that they who are righteous shall be righteous still, and they who are filthy shall be filthy still; wherefore, they who are filthy are the devil and his angels; and they shall go away into everlasting fire, prepared for them; and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end (2 Ne. They will not have a kingdom of glory. Also, Joseph confuses things further by combining words typically used with Hell to describe outer darkness: A sinner has his own mind and his own mind damns him. [4] Augustine, The City of God, trans. However, not once have I ever suspected such a person to be a closet believer in Mormonism. To become a son of perdition one must sin against the Holy Ghost, but before that is possible, one must receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual Religion 324 and 325, 2001, p. 161). what about that 1/3 the host of heaven who didnt follow Gods plan Joseph F. Smith was so sure qualify as Sons of Perdition were NONE of them women? Well thats wrapped up as long as no other prophets said oh. All missionaries are doing is trying to upgrade people to a premium plan of ruling over planets and polygamy. The wicked are cast into outer darkness until the time of their resurrection, Alma 40:13-14. (Selections of Doctrines of Salvation, p. 462. Ball (Provo, UT: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 2001), 7789. Your generous support makes the work of MRM possible. I wonder if the language is tripping people up here. The Book of Mormon contains six references to the second death: one reference by Jacob (Jacob 3:11), three by Alma (Alma 12:16, 32; 13:30), and two by Samuel the Lamanite (Hel. Finally, John saw that death and hell delivered up the dead to be judged according to their works, and death and hell were cast into [a] lake of fire (Rev. Death brought a reversal of their conditions wherein the rich man in hell became a beggar, longing for a drop of water from the finger of Lazarus, who was now in heaven, or Abrahams bosom. In the parable Abraham explained the impossibility of receiving his request, because between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence (Luke 16:1926). It must be emphasized that the witness described means that the person has had the heavens opened unto him and has personally seen, and even spoken with, the Savior, and then has turned against Him, bringing him to open shame. These pains are similar to the state of suffering experienced by the ungodly who after mortality are assigned to hell. Who of the following is NOT eligible for Outer Darkness. Sons of Perdition are to be cast out with the devil and his angels into outer darkness. Even Nazi dictator Adolph Hitler will get nothing less than the telestial kingdom since he was never baptized/confirmed into the church; work was done in proxy for him in the London, England temple several decades ago. John identified specific sins that would lead to the lake of fire and brimstone: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death (Rev. Their theology was turned upside down! 28:2223). It is simply his opinion. Each differing in Glory but all great places to go. Jesus marvelled at the faith of a centurion he met in Capernaum and proclaimed that many would come from the east and west, and [would] sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. The third use occurs in the parable of the talents: "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (Matthew 25:30). This website is not owned by or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (sometimes called the Mormon or LDS Church). It is, therefore, important to examine carefully the context of each reference. 8 - 14 are for safety. In Christianity, it is understood that anyone who denies the holy spirit goes to outer darkness, but they see it as a synonym for Hell. Jesus declared that this exalted city would be brought down to hell (Matt. 14:18.) Mormons believe that a majority of people on this Earth will go to one of these three heavens. The city of Capernaum was upbraided for its lack of faith in view of the miracles Jesus performed there. Horror Short Film "Outer Darkness" | ALTER | Online Premiere Source. Source: https://www.fairmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/What_is_Mormon_Doctrine.pdf. But wait! Pingback: The Shunning Key by bwv549 - Mormon Bandwagon, A Son of Perdition is: The righteousness of some (Abraham or Lazarus) cannot erase the consequences of anothers sins (the rich man). It is the closest Mormon analogy to the concept of hell in most other Christian traditions. Outer Darkness, I always heard, was reserved for a handful of suckers like Cain and Judas who saw God and/or Jesus and were still rebellious. The second death is spiritual and is separation from God. Outer darkness - MormonWiki.org Unless someone has rejected love, like the Nephites, I believe there is still hope that they will repent. Mormons believe that only a Son of Perdition will go to Outer Darkness, their version of most Christian religions understanding of Hell. And their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flames are unquenchable, and whose smoke ascendeth up forever and ever (Mosiah 3:2427; emphasis added). Clearly fire is used as a metaphor for sufferingnot a literal fire but a state of misery. 801-422-6975. This is a place very close in nature to the biblical hell. Also, Mormons believe in three Heavens. Is Jesus the Only Redeemer? Oh yes they did: after a man has sinned the sin against the Holy Ghost, there is no repentance for himlike many of the apostates of Christof the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Bruce M. Metzger and Michael D. Coogan (New York: Oxford University Press, 1993), s.v. The first death is physical death, and everyone but the devil and his angels will overcome physical death through Resurrection. Can someone get out of this state of Perdition once they are in it? Even if I did, I still am not eligible for outer darkness. In a general conference talk, Joseph Fielding Smith further explained that. But as with anything, that doesnt stop prophets from talking about it like they knew. A representation of the tree degrees of glory and outer darkness. For many years, those who have forfeited their membership in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints may have been told by other Mormons that they were Sons of Perdition destined for Outer Darkness. With the exception of those who left the church and later rejoined, every other former Mormon left the church because they believed it is not true. Those who have never received the light are not to become Sons of Perdition. Even the most evil of people, including Adolph Hitler and those of his ilk, appear to have a place reserved for them in nothing less than the telestial kingdom. Samuel also confirms the relationship John spoke of between the second death and the wicked being cast into fire, but he adds this explanatory clause: For they are cut off again as to things pertaining to righteousness.. The ExMo Candle Co. - lighting outer darkness together Youll never regret it. 16:811)meaning to be left with those who would partake of that permanent hell reserved only for those who, as Jacob stated, are filthy still.. Your generous support makes the work of MRM possible. This isnt something like going out and breaking their rule of no drinking. Because of the resurrection, the body and spirit of the wicked are restoredthe body from the grave and the spirit from hell to be judged. Many of the apostates of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Generally, the outer darkness is thought to be hell; however, many Christians associate the outer darkness more generally as a place of separation from God or from the metaphorical "wedding banquet" that Jesus is expected to have upon his Second Coming . We probably do not want to know how horrible it is just like in this life, some things that are so horrible that happen (especially to children) wed rather not know about it, if possible. However, sons of perdition cannot achieve forgiveness and will be completely cast outside of the light of God. Nephis commentary to his brothers concerning his fathers dream of the tree of life adds interesting insight into the possible meaning of the great gulf Jesus referred to: And I said unto them that it was an awful gulf, which separated the wicked from the tree of life, and also from the saints of God. The terms spiritual death or second death, lake of fire and brimstone, and outer darkness are all synonymous with hell, and all are descriptive of both the temporary and the permanent hell. T F It is practically impossible for those who were human to ever be sent to Outer Darkness. If you want to make the point that Mormon Prophets have said some weird stuff, I am all for it. Alma 40. No exact details are given. Because reasons. Banishment from the power of God. He wrote: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death (Rev. 6:8). In this state of torment Alma remembered his fathers teachings about Jesus Christ and his redemptive mission. (see Rom. In each New Testament passage that speaks of hell (the word hades is neutralneither a place of punishment nor reward but the place of departed spirits) the context associates it with suffering and punishment. Cannot be saved at the last day; except W.W. Phelps who was classified as such by Joseph and then redeemed, and we should only trust prophets on the matter because they dont conflict, unless they do. Delving into the interesting bits about any religion to stem from Joseph Smith Jr. Joseph F. Smith,The Second Death,inBrian H. Stuy (editor). In Outer Darkness, there is endless lamentation and no divine presence. After the millennium, after the last great battle between the forces of God and the forces of Satan, Satan and his followers will be cast into Outer Darkness. In this context, outer darkness is the spirit prison, or that part of the spirit world that the wicked inhabit prior to their resurrection. Note the Book of Mormons addition of the words is as. He cried: O Jesus, thou Son of God, have mercy on me, who am in the gall of bitterness, and am encircled about by the everlasting chains of death. This desperate cry for forgiveness through Christ brought deliverance from the pains of hell Alma had experienced because of his sins (Alma 36:1620). Comparison Chart - Mormonism and Christianity - Apologetics

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